Philip, 73, Bristol
Occupation Retired marketing director
Voting record Usually Conservative. Intends to vote Reform next time
Amuse bouche Philip ate the first-ever Viennetta. Fresh out of university, he worked at Unilever, and they placed him with Wall’s ice-cream. It was one of the happiest days of his life; he loves ice-cream
Doug, 63, London
Occupation Wine buyer
Voting record Always Labour, but would vote Green if they stood a chance in his constituency
Amuse bouche Doug is writing a book about the neuropsychology of taste – all the intangibles, from ambient noise to memory, that affect the way we perceive flavour
For starters
Doug He seemed very friendly – I felt relieved. I’m not an argumentative type, and I felt that if we were going to disagree about things, we’d do it in a nice way and we’d be able to draw back from it.
Philip He’s a reasonable guy, like me. He likes to meet new people, and chat, and get a different perspective on life. I think we really hit it off.
Doug I had fontina and sliced-potato pizza. Philip had an egg on his, and I thought, “I know, I’ll have an egg on mine. Why not? Live dangerously.” But that was a silly idea.
Philip We had some starters, and I had a ’nduja pizza; I never know how to pronounce that.
The big beef
Doug People who are disabled, or have mental health problems or long-term illnesses, need to claim disability benefits – there aren’t a lot of people taking the piss here. There should be more help. Benefits are so complicated, and cost so much to administer – there must be a better way.
Philip I was quite shocked when I discovered working tax credit. If a business can’t afford to pay people what they need to live on, they shouldn’t be in business. How on earth did we get to a stage where we pay people who go to work? He cited social arguments, which were reasonable – I came back with a counterargument, because he runs a business: “Do you pay your people enough that they don’t have to claim benefits?” He said, “Yeah, of course.” And I said, “What about your competitors who don’t? Aren’t they getting an unfair advantage?”
Doug The current government and the last government have tried to demonise claimants, but the problem is with employers. It must be more progressive to reduce business costs and ensure that workers are better paid. When people can’t afford to live, they need to be able to top up. The minimum wage isn’t really a living wage.
Philip I see the welfare state as bloated, corrupt. Even Rachel Reeves is starting to agree with me now. The state can’t keep paying people to stay at home, and to go to work.
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Sharing plate
Doug Philip thinks that the world has always experienced climate change and there’s nothing humans can do about it. He implied that the net-zero targets were a waste of time.
Philip I’m not a denier, just the opposite – I say the climate always changes, it’s changing minute by minute, decade by decade. I don’t think anyone other than a historian in 500 years’ time will be able to say what caused it. There’s a degree of hubris, as well. King Canute got laughed at for thinking he could have that effect.
Doug We’re at an existential tipping point. We’re already the agents of so many catastrophes. He says the world’s population is too big – I agree, but I don’t see how you get around that. You can’t just tell countries to breed less.
Philip I’m a strong recycler: I’m always praising myself when I put the bins out, how little there is in the black bin. You’ve got to do everything you can – but for every coal-fired power station we shut, the Chinese open 10.
For afters
Doug He’s against dogs. Not dogs in principle, but in cities, frightening the public, barking, possibly biting. I can understand that if he’s had a negative experience with a dog. I love dogs.
Philip A dog larger than a small child should be regulated as a dangerous dog. It should be muzzled.
Takeaways
Doug We left it very nicely; I sent him a bottle of rosé. I’d meet again. There must be other things one could talk about other than politics.
Philip We parted on good terms. He was fun, and his book sounds fun as well.
Additional reporting: Kitty Drake
